Earlier this week on Facebook a friend of mine, Von Jackson, posted an article titled "Malcolm X's legacy ignored 45 years after his murder" spurred some interesting conversation. The conversation started about the role that Malcolm X played during the struggle for Civil Rights but it quickly morphed into generation wealth and reparations due the black community for the slave trade. I had asserted that Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam used violence, at times, to make their point. To which I was told, "Chris, please LEARN and STUDY Malcolm X before you comment. Its obvious from you statement you know little to nothing about him except what you've seen on tv or read in white slanted literature." Now I respect the person that wrote this comment a lot and he and I have had several intense conversations on race. I asked him to "enlighten me" to what I should read as I admit I do not know Malcolm X like I do other historical figures.
To which my very good friend pointed out a biography and the Spike Lee movie. Well I have already seen the movie and have added The Autobiography of Malcolm X authored by Malcolm X and Alex Haley. We then went on to discuss the last time the Nation of Islam used violence. To which I pointed out that D.C. Sniper John Muhammad was a member when the rampage took place. While no direct line has ever been established between Muhammad and the Nation of Islam (NOI), neither has the leaders of the NOI distance themselves from the actions taken my Muhammad. But I did agree with my friend that we were digressing from the original intent of his article.
At this point in our conversation another friend of Von's chimed in with "Wow Chris, slavery is what made this country so rich, and is what keeps this country strong, by enslaving people all over the world, and stealing their natural resources…" and ended with "I would like you to explain to me how capitalism ended slavery..this should be interesting…(Please note I call bullshyt an awful lot, I debate on Fox News all the time, and shut them up, never losing an argument…so please make sure you have your facts straight when talk to me..)" As many of you already know I love a good challenge. Before I could retort, it was pointed out by my friend that "it was because of CAPITALISM that slavery was introduced to and flourished in this country for over 400 years…" I pointed out, "In short capitalism allows anyone to change their status in life. Capitalism is a two way street as the rich can become poor and the poor can become rich. That is how capitalism is not enslavement. Now mercantilism is what built this country at the start. The freedoms of our Constitution launched us into class movement that greases the wheels of capitalism. Thus no longer enslaving us. Now government intrusion to limit free market forces has lead to enslavement and add in entitlements."
I was told my assessment was wrong and "we are living under a system that is more akin to a Plutocracy, you are allowed to get rich in this country, as long as the already rich see that your wealth in no way henders their cause…" After which further conversation took place on conspiracy theories of 13 families controlling the world. After which the slavery angle reappeared and that it was on the backs of evil slave owners that worked their slaves to build this country. After discussing Aetna(http://www.aetna.com/news/2002/slavery_reparations_issue.html) and Wachovia Banks (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/02/news/fortune500/wachovia_slavery/ ) role in building their business through slavery to which we found out that Aetna wrote policies on slaves and Wachovia's ties to slavery is through two acquisitions made after slave ownership took place and did not exist at time of acquisition. From that point we moved on to reparations.
I asked Corey, one of the other men participating, "Why is your anger focused on those just in America and not toward those that sold your ancestors into slavery?" I never did get a direct answer to this question; rather I got more deflection. Finally I asked, "We can either live in the past or look to a brighter future. Which one do you want to live in Corey?" Finally Corey gave a laundry list for reparations. Corey's list was:
- 1 trillion dollars in gold, and precious metals
- Whites relinquish all powers they have on Africa
- At least half of the nuclear weapons in the USA
- The release of all nonviolent blacks from jail
- 100 billion dollars for machinery to fix the lands of Africa
- Free transportation, back to Africa, for those that want to go
- An apology for slavery, and to change the history books to reflect the truth
- No sanctions on any nations of color
- Just basically stay out of our way, once we get what is owed to us
Is Corey asking for anything outrageous? Should America agree to the terms above for the sins of slavery? Does the list of reparations above move us to a post-racial America?
Half the nuclear weapons? Really, that seems outrageous. I guess why would be my first question. How does that make up for past transgressions? More importantly, who do we give them to? And 4 seems outrageous, too. How does releasing a white collar criminal from jail make up for anything? How does 8 make up for anything?
ReplyDeleteEvery industrialized nation in the world has some sort of skeletons in their closet.
ReplyDeleteShould Great Britain give reparations to all the nations it occupied?
Same with France, the Netherlands?
South Africa...how do we even start with that one?
Lets look to the past as a way to better our future...
all I can say is, REALLY, Corey, REALLY? All of this would make you feel better about the injustices that were done to the black community in the past?
ReplyDeleteJust because you are black, and the were many injustices done to that race, does that make it OK for the black community to act the way they do to the whites?
I have many, many black clients, and they often tell me that I am not giving them what they want becuase they are black....WTH?? However, there are programs put in place that offer assistance to African's that are not available to anyone else, no matter what your situation is.
How would letting all the non violent blacks out of jail help anything? And how is that not racist against the white non violent criminals? A criminal is a criminal, no matter what the crime or skin color.
I would gladly give those wanting to go back to Africa airfare to get there if they wanted to go...the problem? they only want to go visit, then come back. Unless the government is willing to give me a round trip ticket to Sweden then how is that not racist against me?
Great, we'll stay out of your way....just don't ask us for help.
Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways!!
I have asked Corey to read the blog and comment further. I am hoping he does. Also hoping that Von comes as well.
ReplyDeleteWell, we're really not talking about "other" nations. We're talking about the U.S. and its ongoing legacy of racism and discrimination concerning people of color. But if we want to go there, the U.S. paid off the families of Japanese that were interned in camps during WWII did it not? Yet we balk at the thought of atoning for over 400 years of slavery, 100 million blacks enslaved and killed, black family structure and history to our ancestors forever destroyed, yet most whites, simply want to write it off as "oh well thats the past, lets just forget it and move forward". So tell me, how does that work? How do you just "write off" the greatest crime committed against a race of people in history? In reading another post here, a statement was made, "a criminal is a criminal, no matter what the crime or skin color". Well if that were true, then the prison population wouldn't be disproportionately filled with blacks and hispanics as compared to whites. I find it amazing that with all of they're self proclaimed superiority and intellect, the white race cannot comprehend something as simple as the concept of white privilege that they benefit from and are unwilling to acknowledge that much of they're wealth and prosperity, is because of the enslaved ancestors of black people in this nation, who were instrumental in the building of wealth and capital for many white families and corporations in this country. The same black people that now are underestimated, undervalued and marginalized in every socio-economic and judicial sector in this country. And to the Sweden comment, the difference is, YOU nor your ancestors, were stolen from they're native homeland and brought to a foreign country and force to work under the brutality of whips, chains, lynchings, castration, broken families, rape or your women by the slave master, the selling of mothers, fathers, and children. You see, as I have told Chris many times, who I have great respect for, go research the TRUE legacy of slavery and racism in this country, and stop going by the white washed and disneyland version you were taught in school, and your eyes may be opened, at least partially.
ReplyDeleteTesting to make sure this works,it looks like Von done answered everything
ReplyDeleteOk it works....
ReplyDeleteHalf the nuclear weapons are for the safety of a peoples that have been mass murdered and killed for centuries........
The nonviolent blacks,is because we are talking about black peoples reparations........
No sanctions on nations of color,helps us too have free trade,with the world,for Africa has all the minerals,and Gold,and most of the
oil...
And programs to help white people????????
Why would you guys need programs?????
Your WHITE!!!!
Wow was this shut down so easily??????
ReplyDeleteCorey...if we are really going to do reparations they have to be equitable. The reparations that America paid the Japanese interned illegally was a total of $1.2B (http://web.africa.ufl.edu/asq/v2/v2i4a3.htm). What you are asking for goes way beyond that. Also, as the article I just quoted states, "I do not dispute that harm has been inflicted upon Africans both in Africa and in the Americas because of the slave trade."
ReplyDeleteThere are programs already, i.e. Affirmative Action, that attempt to right the errors of America. And if there were to be no sanctions on any nation of color then that would apply to all nations in the world. But how does a country or a group of countries attempt to deter another country from action, through sanctions or violence. Which option is more diplomatic?
And, Corey, I still have not seen an answer to whether you want to idle in the past or look forward to the future.
Affirmative Action helped white women(and if their husbands were smart it helped them) way more than black people,so you can squash those lies.......
ReplyDeleteThe Jews live in the past,and are rewarded...The Christians do too...
Oh and these conservative racist whites that say they want their COUNTRY BACK,living in a delusional and corrupt past,in which they believe they deserve,from a land,and peoples they stole from fair and square I supose....
As for sanctions,the American Government,along with the other powerful white nations of the planet,impose them upon any other Nation that won't bend to their sick, sadistic,evil,and greedy will(for reference check confessions of an economic hit man)
How can you equate some Japanese people that attacked us,and only few of them were held up in camps,getting reparations of 1.2 bil,with over 100 million of us DEAD,enslaved,RAPED,HUNG,TORTURED,SYSTEMATICALLY OPPRESSED,I mean,what's wrong with you man??????
I'm asking for a minimal amount,how are the Japanese doing today?? How about the Jews???What about the African Americans??? How are we doing,oh I forgot we never got our reparations...
"Well, we're really not talking about "other" nations."
ReplyDeleteIn an honest debate that would include all responsible parties. Are you interested in honest discourse?
Let's be honest here, you have not been victimized by slavery, but your ancestors may have been. I say that definitively because you were likely born into this nation.
Making yourself the victim (as opposed to actually being one) is about not having to take responsibility for what happens in your life. Are you a victim Von? Because you weren't a slave nor the direct descendants of slaves. You are at a minimum 4+ generations removed. So how are you a victim again?
"But if we want to go there, the U.S. paid off the families of Japanese that were interned in camps during WWII did it not?"
Yes, the nation paid the DIRECT sufferers of an illegal act. The key word there is DIRECT sufferer. Were you a slave? yourself? Nice red herring argument by the way.
"black family structure and history to our ancestors forever destroyed"
Yes, because the black american idealization of a culture of crime, drugs, and fatherless babies is the fault of slavery 200 years prior and has nothing to do with today's black role models who glamorize those things. Way to pass the buck on responsibility for a failed society instead of owning the behavior or your racial group embraces.
"How do you just "write off" the greatest crime committed against a race of people in history?"
What an unsurprisingly ethnocentric and completely myopic sentiment that is.
"Well if that were true, then the prison population wouldn't be disproportionately filled with blacks and hispanics as compared to whites."
There IS truly a racial bias in the judicial system but to then surmise that this means that all blacks in jail are innocent is fallacious. It's an argument flawed on numerous levels.
"...the white race cannot comprehend something as simple as the concept of white privilege that they benefit from and are unwilling to acknowledge that much of they're wealth and prosperity, is because of the enslaved ancestors of black people in this nation."
You say that blacks are held down by society due to their race and the remnants of slavery. While I'm not going to argue that discrimination doesn't hurt racial opportunities, explain to me then how mexican and asian immigrants arrive here and within a few years own businesses and homes and their kids are in college? If society is so inherently racist towards non-whites, how do they succeed and you fail? Are they smarter? Are the better workers? What makes them succeed vs blacks? Hell, many arrive here not even knowing the language.
"The same black people that now are underestimated, undervalued and marginalized in every socio-economic and judicial sector in this country."
If you think you're such a victim of slavery and poverty try visiting an indian reservation. A part of my heritage is Navajo indian and I've been to the reservation a few times. No matter how bad you think you've got it, it's no comparison. But feel free to continue on with your pity party and tell us more of what you are "due".
I'd respond to the rest but it's just more of the same innane drivel that fails to make any point other than that you're an angry black man who feels you deserve something from people who never wronged you for wrongs that never happened to you. And in the end, this discussion is just a waste of my time.
"I'm asking for a minimal amount,how are the Japanese doing today?? How about the Jews???What about the African Americans??? How are we doing,oh I forgot we never got our reparations..."
ReplyDeleteYour comprehension of history is as flawed as your arguments. The japanese interred were American's who had nothing to do with the attacks on Pearl Harbor. Their reparations were due to a breach in the constitution and were direct payments to DIRECT sufferers of the wrongs. The Jews saw 70%+ of their population in Europe wiped out or dislocated in WWII and have fought non-stop wars ever since to secure a homeland.
In both cases, those who saw any form of reparation by your terminology were the direct sufferers of the crimes against them. Were you a slave? Were your parents a slave? If not then you were not the victim of a crime and therefore are due nothing.
If you were really interested in doing something for the poor nations of the world you'd talk less about your own wants and more about things like debt forgiveness. But your "demands" are as telling as your argument. This isn't abour reparations - it's about you and your status as a perceived victim.
Sorry, you weren't a slave and your parents were slaves. Nor were any of the americans in this country slave owners nor were their parents. As I said before, that means you aren't a victim. You only perceive yourself to be because it's easier than taking responsibility.
Oh and giving nuclear weapons to nations who's people still butcher one another over tribal biases is about as smart as giving crack to a baby. It has no possible outcome other than bad ones. But what a wonderfully thought out "demand".
Ok Kevin,we answered all your questions,and you just WHITEWASHED over everything........
ReplyDeleteCivil Rights issues,was just about what 40 years ago????
Weren't we just segregated,and had Taxation without representation???
The reason that the other immigrants can come to this country and prosper,is because they have a unity,that has been beaten out of the African Americans,anytime we try to come together,we have the CIA,DEA,IRS,FBI,COINTELL PRO,or any other system,set to break us up. The system of racism white supremacy,stays in place to keep blacks from unifying...Imagine the fact that our forefathers that were slaves,couldn't leave us anything,and your forefathers that were slave owners,and thieves,own everything,and passed it down to you,no matter if it was not directly,your people have unity......
And the African Nations,fight over things that the evil white man,has added value to... and also its stupid for anybody to own nuclear weapons,especially white people,since they are the only ones that have used them.......
Ned a friend of mine on put this on Facebook and agreed for me to transfeer it here:
ReplyDeleteWhat has led to the contemporary fragmentation of the Black family? Liberal Policies perhaps....treating minorities as second class citizens that require lower standards to enter college or the workplace? Require monetary assistance to survive...leading to the unintended consequence of the broken black family unit.(but a really strong voting block)....was the pre-welfare state, 1950's black family as fractured as it is today?
In 1960, only 28 percent of black females between the ages of 15 and 44 were never married. Today, it's 56 percent. In 1940, the illegitimacy rate among blacks was 19 percent, in 1960, 22 percent, and today, it's 70 percent. According to Herbert Gutman in "The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925," "Five in six children under the age of 6 lived with both parents.
A much higher correlation with liberal programs than slavery.... ... See More
The only people benefiting from the fracturing of the Black home, and declining socieconomic status are a bunch of WHITE politicians, who the victims keep voting for.
The two things I do to support the Black community are:
1.Volunteer as a Untid Way Big Brother, demonstrating there is a way out of the cycle of dysfunction and gov't dependence
2. Never vote democrat
As an outsider looking in it easy to see, I have lived both sides of political philosophy, and firmly believe liberal policy is discrimanatory and does more to enslave a large protion of society than anything since abolition.
For those who were born and raised in the institition of liberalism, I fear they will never see the light or open there minds, it is hard for a soul, and for ones pride to admit they, and those they love have been duped there entire lives...it is easier to keep towing the party line.
Corey,
ReplyDelete"The reason that the other immigrants can come to this country and prosper, is because they have a untiy, that has been beaten out of the African Americans, anytime we try to come together, we have the CIA, DEA, IRS, FBI, COINTELL PRO, or nay other system, set to break us up"
Please enlighten me how the Government broke up the NAACP Awards the other night? Why does the United Negro College Fund still exist if White American Government wanted to "beaten out" the spirit of the African American.
Also, please indicate when white people have used nuclear weapons on someone one else? If you are referring to Fat Man and Little Boy those were A-bombs not nuclear bombs.
The government set up MLK,they set up Malcoolm X,and Marcus Garvey,bombed Black Wallstreet,had Jim Crow Segregation Laws.broke up the Black Panthers,Conservative Vice Lords,Bloods,Crips,Gangsta Deciples,I mean any group of black people that came together,they set them up,and threatened a member,or their family with jail time,or gave them a bigger position in life.....Just go to the Black History Channel.com,and learn some of this stuff,or watch American Gangster,and watch how J Edgar Hoover set up many Black Groups using the CIA.....
ReplyDeleteSo the Bloods, Crips, etc. should be free to run drugs and murder people? I'm sorry, but a lot of your examples seem like they are from 40 years ago. Are you saying no progress in relations have been made? Can you provide examples of modern groups that have been set-up and threatened?
ReplyDeleteLet's be honest and realistic Corey, you aren't going to get what you feel entitled to. So, now what? What can you do? What can/should the rest of us do?
ReplyDeleteDoes Ned have support for his claim that liberals caused this? Perhaps the increase of those percentages has been the cause of liberal programs, not the effect. Also, how do those numbers compare to the rest of society? He seems to be making a conclusion where logic doesn't support it based on the limited information given.
"Ok Kevin,we answered all your questions,and you just WHITEWASHED over everything."
ReplyDeletePerhaps you should go back and re-read the posts rather than making things up. If you can't find the points I'm talking about I can re-post all the unanswered questions here.
"Civil Rights issues,was just about what 40 years ago????"
Slavery ended 40 years ago? That's wonderful revisionist history there, did you make it up all on your own? Point of fact, neither you nor your parents were slaves and neither I nor my parents were slave holders. You are owed nothing.
"Weren't we just segregated...?"
You are equating segregation to slavery? It's terribly discriminatory but its definitely not slavery. Besides, this has nothing to do with reparations. Come on now, try to stay on topic here for 5 seconds buddy.
"The reason that the other immigrants can come to this country and prosper,is because...we have the CIA,DEA,IRS,FBI,COINTELL PRO,or any other system,set to break us up."
Ahh, so now it's a conspiracy pity party. Don't bother taking responsibility for your life - it's the "CIA, DEA, IRS, FBI, COINTELL PRO" out to get you.
"Imagine the fact that our forefathers that were slaves,couldn't leave us anything"
So slavery 200 years ago is to blame for you not having anything?
Let's be honest here. Black culture in america suffers because of things like the fact that minority drop out rates from high school are nearly 50% in some cities. Or the fact that black culture idealizes fathers abandoning their children in order to chase pipe dreams of easy money rapping or playing basketball instead of taking care of their children? Black culture does not idealize men who go to college, get an education and aspire to be president. In fact, in many circles they're refered to still as "Uncle Tom".
Yes, I'm steroetyping but only to prove that your absurd assertion that you have "nothing" due to a forefather 200 years ago was a slave. It's preposterous.
Your argument is an attempt to deflect responsibility for your own state of being. The person most responsible for your state of being is the man you see in the mirror. How you choose to live your life determines what you have - not what your "forefathers" gave you.
"and your forefathers that were slave owners,and thieves,own everything,and passed it down to you"
ROFLOL. My Fathers forefathers were in this country before the white man landed in the 1400's. And my mothers forefathers came over in the late 1800's, long after slavery was abolished. Again, the fact is neither you nor your parents were slaves. You have no grounds to claim grievance for any crimes committed 200 years ago.
"And the African Nations,fight over things that the evil white man,has added value to...."
You don't even understand the point I'm making. Giving nuclear weapons to a nation that still has tribal battles where thousands are butchered with machette's and knives is as stupid as giving a baby crack.
And just so you know, africans knew what gold was LONG before the white man came to their shores. They also knew they could sell their people for gold shiney thngs. But hey, whose paying attention to facts here right?
Corey, If you truly cared about africa, and empowering the african people you'd be advocating things like african debt relief. But you're not. And that is more telling than anything else you say here. It speaks to your true motivations; self-centered greed and some petty and childish form of punishment for your perceived "victim-hood". Sadly, you're a victim of nothing more than a set of delusional ideas and a completely paranoid perspective of the world.
Kevin..unfortunately to many people rather play the victim than take responsibility for their actions. I do not say this to marginalize slavery; rather as it has been pointed out no one here has been a slave and the reparations that Corey has pointed to went directly to those affected.
ReplyDeleteYou see how this [has become circular,a bunch of anonymous peoples posting about a serious issue,and a bunch of white people that are living in the system of white privilege,telling black people"so what we broke your legs,you can still catch up!!! quit complaining!!!!"
ReplyDeleteThe arrogance and the foolishness of you guys is amazing..
So I'm paranoid when I have Police walking to my car with guns drawn for a regular traffic stop?????
I was paranoid when I was 18,and I was told that the place I worked for wanted a WHITE GUARD instead of a black one,because thats what they preferred...
I was Paranoid when at jobs white people called in on me and said I looked "suspicious" when I worked somewhere and got me fired...
I was paranoid when driving in the suburbs(doing my job) the police pulled me over all the time,to the point that it cost me $10,000 to get my license back,because they wouldnt just let me go to work in peace,and let my grace period on my tickets pass for points,after i had already paid the fines...
I was paranoid when I was in the Air Force my TI made sure to check the % black mens personal items,out of a flight of 50....
I was paranoid when I was an officer,and the white people would go in and call my boss and say I was reading a magazine,when when the white Guards were out there their cars were being stolen,because they were sleep,never a car got stolen on my watch...
I guess I was paranoid when I was working at a plant and I was the only black employee,and got fired,for being Lazy,when I had done my job already,and couldnt do anything else unless the other people on the assembly line worked,while they were playing game boys,and driving the forklifts recklessly ,even his own son said "Dad what are you doing??? he cant do any work???"
I guess I am just making up things that have PERSONALLY HAPPENED TO ME!!!!!
Because of the system of RACISM WHITE SUPREMACY,had I been able to be on equal footing,and My PEOPLE,we would not have to go to the WHITE MAN for JOBS....You OWN EVERYTHING!!!
Corey...your narrative is unfortunate. As we have discussed many a time on Facebook that people will run into ignorant people throughout ones life. That being said, we are talking about reparations and whether or not monetary value is to be given to the black community.
ReplyDeleteThe White Man does not own everything for if that was true then other cultures and races that come to America would not flourish. Why is it that Asians, Arabs, and other African-American groups come to America and succeed? Why is it that those decendants of families sold into bondage by their own brethern unable to replicate similar success?