For the past year I have heard to mantra of racism, bigotry, and right-wing extremist tied to the Tea Party movement. When I have asked those espousing the mantra about the source of their conclusions very few are from firsthand accounts of the Tea Party events. I witnessed one such Tea Party event last year in St. Paul and even blogged about it. While I agree with many points the Tea Party movement was pushing that day, I did not enlist as my independent spirit still struggles with party affiliation. This morning as the kids were reading themselves for school and while watching Morning Joe I came across and interesting article in the Los Angeles Times about the a recent poll conducted.
The LA Times reported that Tea Party members "are average Americans, 41% are Democrats, independents" (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/04/tea-party-obama.html). The ironic part of the poll results is that it runs contrary to the mantra being drummed up by the mass media and Progressives as to who "belongs" to the Tea Party. It was a series of three national phone surveys done yesterday that resulted in 17% of those polled identified themselves "part of the Tea Party movement."
Could it be true that the Tea Party is actually comprised of average Americans just fed up with the growing size of government, rising debt, the absence of fiscal responsibility in Washington, and the threat of increasing taxes? According to the LA Times article the breakdown was "28% independent, 17% Democrat and only 57% Republican." Gallup's Lydia Sadd wrote, "[Tea Party members] age, educational background, employment status, and race – Tea Partiers are quite representative of the public at large." What I am curious about is how many people polled on Sunday identified themselves as Coffee Party members. The fact that 41% of those identifying themselves part of the Tea Party movement raised concern for both major parties as the mid-term elections draw near. Could a third party emerge in November? Will the Tea Party folks be the swing group? Or will the demonizing of the Tea Party continue? Will they continue to be painted by the mantra even though more and more independent and Democrat minded folks are joining?
Chris, as you know, I have a less than favorable view of the Tea party and I also doubt they'll become a serious contender or 3rd party in any real sense in the fall. Here's why.
ReplyDeleteIt's a party without positive ideas. People screaming at congressmen/women in town hall meetings is not productive, civil or positive. It generates no long term value but it does make for headlines. And that seems to be the goal of most tea partiers, headlines.
However, without the ability to hold civil discourse you cannot govern because in the end, the majority of americans - while entertained by demagogic blather, don't want to vote for it.
For me this dislike of their tone/tenor is further enflamed by their status as fair-weather fiscal conservatives and the hypocrisy that I see that it brings to the table. Where were they for the 8 years prior when Bush was in office? Or the 8 years before that for Clinton? True fiscal conservatives don't care what party is in power - they only care that strong financial restraint and fiscal principals are applied to government. Yet none of them cried about that.
And they're not constitutionalists because while they rail about loss of "rights" most don't know what those rights are nor were they up in arms when things like the patriot act were passed. While I've heard nothing but infringement of rights with this health insurance reform bill, I didn't hear anything from these tea partiers regarding the patriot act and that WAS a true infringement of our constitutional rights as citizens, not just a blurring of the line between federal and state rights.
Worst of all to me, they make those of us who have been libertarians for years look bad because they call themselves libertarians and get associated with the rest of us. I don't like being painted a tea partier when I am as far from that as I can be.
To paraphrase one republican strategist regarding the tea party, "they make lots of noise but have no muscle".
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100405/ap_on_an/us_tea_party_revolution_analysis
I don't see a third party, I see a group of people who will be manipulated by the republicans into voting for their candidates or putting even more conservative candidates on the ticket and possibly spoiling the election for the Republicans in the fall.
And I'd laugh at that fact if it didn't do exactly what I'm afraid will happen: re-empower the democrats by not taking away their majority in either chamber of congress. Congress works best when no party is in total power. It forces compromise and that cannot be a bad thing.
83% are something other than Democrats. That's not a representation of the nation at large. To claim 41% are Democrats or Independnets, while accurate, skews what is really going on when only 17% are actually Dems. That's a big difference in reality compared to what was trying to be conveyed.
ReplyDeleteI think Chris's point is that the tea party isn't solely extre-right wing republicans. And in that sense he's right.
ReplyDeleteI was actually surprised that 17% of dem's self-described as Tea Partiers. Independents don't surprise me much since a large portion of them are former republicans. The Republican party has been losing membership for 10+ years due to it's lackluster behavior and migration to the right. Center-right members have been forced out. The tea party will only accellerate this movement as they force the republicans to be more extreme in order to garner votes, in my opinion.
I'll believe it's a real movement when they vote that way. It's easy to say you like 3rd parties in March, it's a lot hard to cast the vote in November. People don't like voting for a loser and they want their vote to matter. I felt Peter Hutchinson would have been a great choice for Governor in 06 but I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I knew he didn't have a chance and I didn't want one of the other main candidates to win. Sadly, my vote was more against someone than for someone.
ReplyDeleteI actually think they've driven some real momentum with their voting in New York and Mass. But November will be the true test. It's one thing to affect 1 special election but another all together to affect hundreds.
ReplyDeleteI think isolated cases will appear where Tea Parties affected the races in both directions both by helping Republican candidates and hurting them where they split the Republican vote. I think Arizona will be one of those latter cases perhaps with McCain. His primary opponent has large tea party support. He may run independent and draw votes from McCain and help a democrat take that office.
That would be an upheaval in the republican party of staggering proportions.
I do not see the core of the Tea Party as a movement without ideas. The portion of the movement that gets mass media play is the fringe elements of it. I understand why as it sells.
ReplyDeleteThose that I spoke to during the last gathering in St. Paul as to why now; the overriding theme had to do that Republicans lost their way and the Democrats are only making things worse. Third parties tried to come alive, Ross Perot, during the Clinton years but the movement quickly got absorbed back into the two major parties.
I acknowledge that only 17% of those polled identified themselves as Democrats but as Kevin pointed out the movement is not comprised of just Neo-Cons as the mass media makes it sound like.
As for thinking that ones vote for a third party is a waste is a fallacy. I understand that one may feel it is wasted because it appears to be voting for a candidate that has little chance. The trouble with that logic is too many of us apply it. If we did not apply that a strong signal would be sent. What many in do not understand that if a third party candidate can get 10% of the vote they become eligible for matching public funds. As we all know, our insane system requires Billions of dollars to participate in. So vote for that third party candidate if they meet your ideals so they too can get additional funds to make further inroads into the two party system.
"Republicans lost their way and the Democrats are only making thnigs worse.". Wow, those are some real substantive ideas. That's about as good as "I want my country back" or "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" or "Don't tread on me" or "Fire Congress". Yep, that Tea Party movement sure is full of meaning.
ReplyDeleteCheck out this take on the Tea Party movement from. A favorite source of the Ardent Viper: www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/opinion/03zaretsky.html
Clark..thanks for the Op-Ed. Zaretsky's summation, "Tea Party activists might find it infuriating ever to be compared to the nation they consider the anti-America. But French observers of our country may be forgiven if they feel a certain déjà vu when they see a movement that brings nothing to the ballot box except anger" may have some accuracy but falls short.
ReplyDeleteFirst the past three decades we have seen third party candidates attempt to make major inroads into our two party system. The reason why many feel that the Tea Party is void of ideas is because the mass media is more apt to report the fringe noise than what is really being said by the core members.
The Tea Party, if they are to stay a major player, need to re-brand themselves and get their message out through the noise the mass media is acknowledging as the message of the Tea Party. Clark, I am not sure where you live, but go to a Tea Party rally on April 15th and hear their message first hand.
And, yes, if Republicans had not veered away from being fiscally conservative and Democrats pushed their Progressive ideals movements, like the Tea Party, would not spring up. We are on an unsustainable path, which I previously blogged about, and instead of stemming the tide our politicans are too busy bickering over who started us down this road. Let's stop the finger pointing and start reducing the size and scope of government.
We need to reduce spending, establish a new tax system that promotes growth, remove entitlement programs, audit the Fed, and pass another Glass-Steagell Act. That is just for starters.
Here is another poll with interesting results: http://www.visiontoamerica.org/story/voters-favor-tea-parties-over-obama-48-to-44.html
ReplyDeleteChris, it's not the responsiblity of the mass media to deliver the message the core of the movement wants to deliver. It's the responsibility of the movement to do that.
ReplyDeleteIf you can't control your fringe (birthers/truthers, etc) then what makes you think the movement can be taken seriously, let alone become a third party?
If you want to dismiss these messages, you must stand up against them. I haven't seen that from anyone who says they want the movement to be taken seriously.
I disagree on the 3rd party fallacy you claim. Maybe on an objective level, yes, but not subjectively. I want a candidate today you can do the most for me today. One needs to get elected to do that. I know what I get with a major party candidate. The core values the party stands for will be protected or pushed. A particular third party candidate may hold those values, but as a whole, they aren't nearly as connected. I don't know that a future third party will have the same beliefs as the one I'm voting for today.
ReplyDelete"I don't know that a future third party will have the same beliefs as the one I'm voting for today."
ReplyDeleteAs opposed to politicians from the two major parties who flip flop on policy positions constantly?
Let's be honest here, you don't know that the majority party candidate will have the same beliefs as the one you voted for today in six months. So that argument seems weak.
Now, the fact that they face an uphill battle from both parties once elected is another and much more valid issue. But in many situations they are courted by both parties to become a swing player and carry disproportionately high levels of power relating to their position. (J. Lieberman is an example of this)
I agree it is not the responsibility of the mass media to deliver the message but they are doing a great job at smearing the Tea Party. The central leaders of the Tea Party have been on TV denouncing the alleged acts that took place during the Sunday of the health care passage by the House.
ReplyDeleteThe trouble is the only place they were heard was on Fox News and Morning Joe. Outside of that the rest of the mass media did not want to hear their claims since the viewership and money flows easier when reporting the violence, hatred and bigotry. By the way, I have only seen one video where a black House member appears to be spit on. Why I said appears is that one cannot tell if the person actually spit or if with all the screaming they were doing that salivia came forth from saying Kill the Bill.
Anon..what is it that you look for in a candidate when pulling the lever?
Chris, I don't see media as smearing the tea party as much as the tea party allowing it's fringe to smear itself and in the process set the tone and message for the group.
ReplyDeleteAgain, it is YOUR responsibility if you want to be considered a rational party to control your fringe groups or excise them from your group altogether. (I recommend the latter) The fact that the media is drawn to the more sensational parts of the Tea party movement/message isn't surprising since sensationalism sells.
I've seen tea party leaders on CNN and other newscasts so it's simply not true that ONLY Fox is carrying them. It's probably that you don't watch those other newscasts that would make you think that.
Again, the problem is that the tea party doesn't want centralized leadership or a controlled message but then complains when a vocal group on the fringe paints the movement as radical nut-jobs.
You can't have it both ways. You must either get rid of groups like the birthers/truthers or suffer because of them.
The refusal of the tea party movement to do the former means you must endure the latter.
Again to the racist actions, just because you haven't seen proof that it happened, doesn't mean it didn't. Is it really that hard to believe that some of the movements members are racists and behaved this way? Because based upon what I've seen, I'm not surprised at all.
I will admit that since taking on my new business I have not had a lot of TV watching time. What little news programming I have been watching in the past few weeks has been Morning Joe on MSNBC and KARE11 News at night. The rest comes from the daily newspapers I puruse online and/or delievered to the home.
ReplyDeleteIt is good to hear that Tea Party leaders are getting more airtime then just on Fox. Perhaps then people will see that it is not just angry white employed men demanding a smaller government. I did hear on the radio that blacks that have made it known that they are part of the Tea Party movement are being smeared and bullied.
You are correct that the Tea Party struggles with the notion of a centralized leader which is the beauty of the movement. What is the ole saying...all good politics is local..or something like that. We do not need a strong central government dictating to us in any manner.
States have seen their rights eroded long enough and any Attorney General that is not party to the suit against health care mandate is simply playing party politics. The States need to exert their rights and not just here. States need to stand up and say we are not going to allow the Federal Government to dictate to us anymore. Because if that does not happen, those States that have been fiscally responsible will be burdened by the debt of California, Michigan and others that allowed Progressive ideals d