For the past several days we have watched an escalating situation in Egypt to the point of violence. Many point to pro-Mubarak "thugs" for inciting the violence. Press Secretary Gibbs said yesterday that we need change "now". When Obama took office he toured the Middle East and gave speech after speech trying to reach out to the Muslim world while apologizing for the heavy hand of America. Ironically, now, the same man that railed against prior Middle East policy is trying to influence the situation in Egypt. The protesting in Egypt raises bigger questions as it appears the wind of change is blowing throughout the Middle East. A week back Tunisia saw similar change, earlier this week Jordan dismissed part of their government due to protestors and now Yemen is heating up.
In reading the foreign papers and American papers this week the bogey man has ranged from the CIA to the Muslim Brotherhood. We all understand why President Obama is pushing Mubarak to step aside and why America continues to meddle in the Middle East; oil. Just because a Democrat or a Progressive is in the White House does not change the root reason for America's Middle East foreign policy. If Obama wants a switch to more Western style Democracy in Egypt then allow Mubarak and/or his "party" to run in the September election. What role should the United States take in Egypt and the Middle East?
The US should play NO role in a countries internal politics. Iran is proof positive that meddling in another countries politics has what the CIA calls "blowback". The revolution of 1978 and subsequent hostage crisis was directly a result of our support for the Shah after we overthrew their democratically elected government - over oil.
ReplyDeleteIf egyptians want a theocracy or put another dictator in place, that's their business. We should not get involved.
Now if they are forming a government and ask for help, that's different. But it's not our place to get involved in internal politics.
Viper...could you specifically point to a speech given by Obama that "apologizes for the heavy hand of America". This seems to be a conservative talking point that is quite unfounded. It seems that he doesn't get up on the stump in foreign countries and tout how great America is rather how America can work with their allies for a common goal. Is there something wrong with a more modest approach?
ReplyDeleteThat being said, Truman made the point. The Obama administration did what they should be doing. Condemning violence, promoting peaceful demonstrations, promoting democratic elections, etc. But America should play no role in the process.
Anonymous
ReplyDeleteThe speech he gave in Cairo was an apology and an appeal to the Muslim world. Here is an portion of that speech:
And finally, just as America can never tolerate violence by extremists, we must never alter our principles. 9/11 was an enormous trauma to our country. The fear and anger that it provoked was understandable, but in some cases, it led us to act contrary to our ideals.
I agree that Egypt should be let alone to form their own government but we have the current administration,publicly, telling Mubarak to step down "now". If Obama wants to promote true democratic elections why is the administration saying the Mubarak nor his party can run in the election?
"The fear and anger that it provoked was understandable, but in some cases, it led us to act contrary to our ideals."
ReplyDeleteIs this somehow untrue? It would be one thing if he was being an apologist to appease the middle east. But it's another to simply speak the truth in a speech.
The US has spent 50 yeas meddling in the middle east. We have overthrown validly elected democracies (Iran). We have supported horrific dictators (Saddam, Mubarak, etc). We have kidnapped and tortured hundreds if not thousands of their people, many without charges simply because we were on a witch hunt to "find terrorists".
Do you somehow feel that we don't owe them an apology? Do you somehow feel that these actions show the moral superiority of the US? Do you somehow feel that these actions are justified?
If another country, let's say China, overthrew our government and imposed a dictator on us, kidnapped our people, and murdered thousands in the name of a "war on terror" do you think we'd do any less than those in the middle east have done?
And do you think the moment we overthrew their puppet regime we'd somehow go back to trusting the Chinese?
I think it's a rather difficult position for you to take that we shouldn't meddle in the affairs of foreign nations but at the same time saying that we shouldn't apologize for mistakes of the past when we VERY CLEARLY DID MEDDLE.
And the reason that Mubarak is being opposed to run has nothing to do with democratic movement, it is because Mubarak and his cronies are the only organized group in the country and they have rigged elections in the past.
Is that what you want involved in democracy? Our country bans people from being involved in democracy all the time - it's called being a convicted felon. I think crimes against humanity rates a bit higher than armed robbery in the grand scheme of things, don't you?
I don't think we ought to be tinkering in their affairs. Some argue that the push by the protests across the Middle East right now is fueled by the CIA and efforts to convert friendly governments, like Egypt, it turmoil to help accomplish a push of Muslim's into power. Even some feel that the CIA is doing this on behest of the Obama administration in an effort to push the Green agenda in the United States.
ReplyDeleteNow I agree with a lot of what people are saying here on this blogsite about not meddling into the affairs of the Middle East in a proactive manner. I find it ironic that countries that Obama went on his apology tour as the Right dubbed it are the ones that are seeing more and more uprising. Coincidence?
Truman
ReplyDeleteI am all for the banning of convicted felons. If you break the laws in such a manner you should lose your rights as a citizen of this great nation. Just because we have Mubarak and his cronies out of the election process does not mitigate nor ensure free and fair election. I have no confidence that the UN will be able to oversee this nor do I want the United States. I saw well look to England, Germany or Russia to oversee the elections. What crime against humanity has Mubarak committed?
As Mad Money guru Cramer said, and I paraphrase, that the uprising in Egypt is about the middle class going hungry not about a regime revolt. I know Cramer is a money guy but look at the price of commodities and middle class people in poor countries struggled before the rate hikes imagine now.
"What crime against humanity has Mubarak committed?"
ReplyDeleteAsk some egyptians and you'll get an earful on that question. While he is a friend to America, we overlook the fact that he has secret police on every corner arresting any dissidents and using torture and murder to keep his nation in line.
Just because he's a friendly to use, should we overlook the horrible things he's done? Give him a pass on the torture and murder of his own people?
This is a revolt against tyranny and poverty. Those two things are inseparable in a dictatorship. It is a cry for self representation. We should encourage them from the sidelines while doing nothing to overtly support them.
And whatever government they choose to represent themselves, in the end it's their choice. And since they made the choice themselves we should accept it.
We might find we're accepted better in that part of the world if we stopped sticking our noses in their internal affairs.
On a side note, I really need to start proof reading my posts.
ReplyDeleteTruman
ReplyDeleteI asked the question about Mubarak because I really did not know. Been reading various news sites since posting that question. If what is being alleged is true there is no defense to be given.
"If what is being alleged is true there is no defense to be given."
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree. We've supported yet another "Saddam". He hasn't gassed his people, but he's surely raped and pillaged them for 30 years.
As a side note, while ~40% or more of his population lives on less than $2 a day, Mubarak has ammassed a 30-75billion dollar nest egg.
Yes, that said billion. Sadly, he's good enough at hiding his money that the egyptians will likely never see any of it.
Did you hear that the Saudis are prepared to fund Mubarak government if America decides to pull funding? I say let's pull our funding. We need to take a serious look at our foreign aid and how our military is used. I just heard this morning that, on Morning Joe, we may be in Afghanistan until 2021. What happened to the Bush plan?
ReplyDelete